Thursday, February 28, 2008

Obama's Incoherence

What did Barack Obama mean Tuesday when he told Tim Russert that if, following his promised withdrawal of U.S. forces, "al-Qaeda is forming a base in Iraq, then we will have to act in a way that secures the American homeland and our interests abroad"?

Surely Obama is aware that much of the military activity in Iraq for some time has been devoted-- successfully -- to pushing AQI out of those areas (Anbar, for example) where it had previously established itself. Isn’t he?

If he does know that, and if he concedes that a future AQI “base” in Iraq would be a cause for his ordering some sort of military action – either some missile lobbing in Bill Clinton’s feckless style, or a reintroduction of troops -- then why is he promising to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq as fast as he can? Wouldn’t Obama’s withdrawal be likely to precipitate precisely the scenario that sets up Obama’s own future military intervention? Wouldn’t it make more sense – from his own point of view – to continue the thus-far successful counter-insurgency campaign that is underway right now, but that he promises to end?

Obama’s later statements on the matter haven’t clarified matters. On Wednesday, John McCain responded to Obama’s mystifying remarks in the debate by mocking him. "When you examine that statement,” McCain said during an appearance in Texas, “it's pretty remarkable. I have some news. Al-Qaeda is in Iraq. It's called 'al-Qaeda in Iraq.'"

Obama, campaigning in Ohio, responded. “I do know that al Qaeda is in Iraq,” he said, which is good to know since he had left that point ambiguous. He then added his intended zinger. “I have some news for John McCain,” he said. “There was no such thing as Al Qaeda in Iraq until George Bush and John McCain decided to invade Iraq.”

Wait a minute. There’s a lot more to that story, isn’t there? In fact, it’s the rest of that story that is at the center of this election. Yes, after the U.S. overthrew the Baathists, AQI challenged the U.S. in Iraq, attempting to foment a civil war by a barbaric campaign of murder. Then, after a lengthy period of bloodletting and sectarian violence, the Sunnis turned against AQI, the U.S. employed an effective counter-insurgency strategy, and the major Shiite militia stopped killing Sunni civilians. AQI has been humiliated, and its standing in the Muslim world has plummeted.

Obama knows all this, doesn’t he? He must, because he recently trivialized it all as a mere “tactical victory.” (I know that he’s aware that his promised withdrawal could lead to genocidal violence, because he has said he is indifferent to potential genocide.) Anyway, if Obama agrees that al-Qaeda is already in Iraq, and if he is aware of recent military successes against AQI, then the obvious question at the center of the election is, what now? Obama’s answer seems to be, let’s get out, but if the situation becomes what I already know it is, let’s resume military action to stop it. Huh?

Given the centrality of Iraq to the election and to his own campaign, Obama has been amazingly incoherent on the subject. “[W]e should continue to strike al-Qaeda targets" in Iraq, Obama told the crowd in Ohio on Wednesday. But if striking such targets is important, why promise to withdraw the U.S. forces that are doing the striking? If an AQI “base” in Iraq is a threat to U.S. interests, why trivialize and promise to abandon a successful strategy that is working against AQI?

Either the struggle in Iraq matters or it doesn’t. And if it does, as Obama’s own statements seem to suggest, why abandon the struggle while you are succeeding, with the back-up promise to recommence it later, when the enemy has had a chance to regroup? What sense does any of this make?

45 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did Obama forget about Al Quaeda afffiliates Jund al-Islam/Ansar al-Islam? This first militant Wahhabi organization was formed on September 1, 2001. The link to a human Rights Waych report is http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/ansarbk020503.htm .

Mark-In-Chi-Town

11:57 AM  
Blogger DWPittelli said...

Obviously Obama knows that we can't pull out as quickly as he (and any Democrat) have to promise while the primaries are in contention. Ms. Clinton has already shown she will run to his left on Iraq if given a chance, even though she voted for the war. So yes, he's being disingenuous on the Iraq war. A lot less disingenuous, however, than Clinton has been.

2:48 PM  
Anonymous Oldcrow said...

This is all BS libtard red meat, Obama is lying to the lefties take a look at this article about his anti-NAFTA rhetoric LINK TO ARTICLE

3:13 PM  
Blogger Rocker 419 said...

The Dem-Libs are so pathetic. As long as they keep chanting "We hate Bush" it doesn't matter what their positions or policies are. Look at what Obama is running (and winning) on: Change. Hope. What the hell does that mean? Change to what? I guess the details don't matter to the Left. Which is why they'll lose another one...

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, I think Barry Obama does have a plan.

He going to hope that things change for the better in Iraq.

YES HE CAN!!!

3:36 PM  
Blogger Red River said...

Does Obama have a Time Machine?

Because that's the only way to make sense of the statement:

"Al-Qaeda was not in Iraq until we invaded."

Will Obama go back in time and stop the invasion?

3:40 PM  
Blogger Tman said...

All this talk of "no al-qaeda in Iraq prior to the US Invasion" surely comes as a mystery to the corpse of one Abu Musaab Al Zarqawi. He arrived there well before the US overthrow of Saddam. In fact, many jihadists were known to have fled Afghanistan and arrived in Iraq to stay with other Islamic terrorists who were, well, already there.

But, hey, why should facts cloudy up a nice liberal talking point?

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me see if I have this straight ...

Obama thinks Iraq is a sideshow to the fight against Al Qaeda ...

So he wants to get out of Iraq - presumably so those troops, etc. will be available for the fight ...

But he agrees that Al Qaeda is in Iraq ...

So ... we should pull out troops out of contact with Al Qaeda so they'll be available to fight Al Qaeda ....

is that it?

3:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can't wait until we're out of there. Why is the big-spending right so excited about social engineering elsewhere, when they whine about it constantly over here in the US?

Genocide? I thought the surge worked? Why should we be worried about genocide when the right has all but declared Mission Accomplished 2.0?

I guess coherence is too much to ask from the dunces whacking off at their keyboards over stupid Imperial fantasies...

3:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, no. What you're missing on the liberal speak is this. Al Qaeda has won in Iraq so therefore we should give that territory to them. Then we take another swing at removing them from the country! Afterall, liberals like Obama believe in fair fights! It's so wrong to have such an overwhelming superiority over our enemies.

4:07 PM  
Anonymous Markj said...

Anonymous,

And your point is.....?

Idiots like you make a very good case for reinstatement of the Draft. Damn buddy, what a deal: free health care, a guaranteed paycheck, and an exciting job in an exotic locale for two years. Sure sounds better than living in your parents' basement, playing Warcraft, and working at Burger World like you're doing now, doesn't it?

4:18 PM  
Blogger Montagne Mointaigne said...

Hi. Umm. You all wouldn't just be trying to score cheap political points, would you? Because this is real easy.

Obama has spoken before of leaving a residual force in place IN THE REGION to have available to assist the Iraqi forces to fight Al Qaeda. That's different from having 150,000 occupying troops in Iraq (when by any appreciable measure the people and government of Iraq want us to go).

Second, why don't you mention that John McCain falsely claims that Obama would "surrender Iraq to Al Qaeda" by withdrawing? That statement shows utter incomprehension of the situation in Iraq. Does anybody really think that the Shiite-dominated, Iran-leaning government of Iraq would SURRENDER to Al Qaeda, who they hate? Oh, and how would Al Qaeda take over Iraq if the Sunnis hate them and are fighting them too? That's just absurd, a red herring to score cheap points.

Obama has the better part of the argument, unless you are tied to the Bush administration dream of Iraq.

4:25 PM  
Blogger Tman said...

MM,


Obama is LYING. That's the problem. Al-Qaeda, and more specifically MANY Islamic terrorists were in Iraq before 2003.

He knows this, but doesn't care but it's easier to fire up the liberal base who lap up any anti-Iraq War fodder like it's their last meal.

And are you SURE that "by any appreciable measure the people and government of Iraq want us to go"? Seems like that is to be left open to interpretation.

Whatever you feel about Obama lying, the main point here is that the surge has worked, we have stemmed the tide of civial war, and we are on the right path to stabilization within Iraq. Why anyone in their right mind would propose that we change the path we're on at such a crucial point is unfathomable. This is simply irresponsible of Obama, and he should know better. Petraeus and several others determined that the problem we had prior to the surge was the lack of face-to-face exposure between US troops and Iraqi's. Once he had patrols living outside of their green zones, things noticeably improved.

Obama is essentially proposing that we go back to the strategy that was screwing us so badly before the surge.

BRILLIANT!

4:36 PM  
Blogger Steven said...

MM,
If you could show an order from the Prime Minister of Iraq, or a law passed by the Iraqi Parliament, telling us to leave, that would be an appreciable measure of the Iraqi government's desire to have us leave. Occasional speeches by second-rank politicians are not.

6:13 PM  
Blogger Muhannad said...

Zarqawi was in Iraq before 2003.

6:21 PM  
Blogger TmjUtah said...

If I was an Iraqi politician, I'd make a point of talking to some Boat People.

Being a dependent ally of the U.S. kind of sucks once the reins end up in Democrat hands. Not too many places to launch a boat from Iraq, either.

Malaki's (sp) government better get cracking. They may be on their own come November.

8:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama's plan is to win the election, then withdraw and ask the media never to mention the genocide that happens or that the new rulers of the decimated Iraq call themselves 'Al-qaeda".

8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I sent an email to my friends about this (most people don't pay attention, unfortunately). We all need to inform...

BTW - check this out, scary stuff
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html

11:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montagne Mointaigne noted:
"Obama has spoken before of leaving a residual force in place IN THE REGION to have available to assist the Iraqi forces to fight Al Qaeda."

Regardless of whether this is "in the region" or in-country bases somewhat isolated from the populace, I can't understand how it is any different (well, worse actually because of the implied distance) from the previous strategy, i.e., emerge from secured bases, fight the enemy, return to base.

So are Obama and Clinton advocating a return to the previous (failed) strategy? For the life of me, I honestly can't figure out what either one is advocating.

11:33 PM  
Blogger Jamie said...

Obama is trying (with some success, dang it) to link McCain and Bush, so that he can continue to run against Bush rather than running against McCain. McCain's answer should have been along the lines of, "I have some further news for Mr. Obama: Oversimplified and naive - to put it kindly - as his statement was, it's also entirely irrelevant. al Qaeda is in Iraq NOW. Why, then, does he advocate removing U.S. forces from where he himself says they ought to be?"

4:31 AM  
Blogger biwah said...

Exactly Jamie. Obama's position is built on internal inconsistencies, but it makes tactical sense vs. McCain. He's in a particularly delicate dance until he wins the nomination. Once that happens we will get more forthright acknowledgment that we cannot actually withdraw from Iraq, maybe a modest reduction but no more in the short term.

It's political necessity, but I support Obama and could accept McCain. Obama is not about to commit hara-kiri in the late primary stage, but he will be strong on our presence in Iraq when the time comes. Meanwhile his election will vastly improve our prospects for cooperation from our allies and get some domestic consensus on doing what we need to do. The lack of that consensus is what has hurt us more than anything since '03, and among the various causes for that unfortunate situation, #1 is McCain's on-again, off-again pal GWB.

I don't excuse his ambiguity on Iraq indefinitely - just through the primaries. I expect and hope for an honest debate in the general election - both candidates have the spine for straight talk. I would like to think the electorate will punish the candidate who won;t make the necessary concessions out of ego and thereby avoids taking a position on Iraq in the general.

7:13 AM  
Blogger David M said...

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the blog post From the Front News and Personal dispatches from the front lines.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

biwah said: "Obama's not about to commit hari-kari...he will be strong on our presence in Iraq when the time comes"

I'm so glad you can read his mind. We have little record to draw upon. We can only rely on what he says. And what he says is: I never supported Iraq so I will withdraw the vast majority of troops in my first year. A lot of the expanded government programs I propose rely on me funneling money to them that would otherwise go to our mission in Iraq.
No massive withdrawal from Iraq, no money to fund his idea of "change". So if he's lying about his intentions in Iraq, he's lying about everything else he proposes - either no "change" or significant tax hikes shoved on you to pay for them.

montagne said:"why don't you mention that John McCain falsely claims that Obama would 'surrender Iraq to Al Qaeda' by withdrawing? That statement shows utter incomprehension of the situation in Iraq."

What it shows is your lack of understanding of Al Qaeda's influence there thus far. Al Qaeda fomented "civil war" - sectarian violence pitting Sunni and Shia and established safe havens by controlling populations through extreme brutality. Chaos and civil war is what Al Qaeda wants. Create chaos, keep people in utter fear and disorganization so they don't fight back when you take over town by town, region by region. By precipitously withdrawing, we risk giving them that and handing back territory to Al Qaeda from which to launch even more brutal attacks on the Iraqi people.

Yet Obama is perfectly willing to accept that scenario, and apparently so are you.

8:22 AM  
Anonymous BuddyPC said...

Montagne Mointaigne said...

Obama has spoken before of leaving a residual force in place IN THE REGION to have available to assist the Iraqi forces to fight Al Qaeda. That's different from having 150,000 occupying troops in Iraq (when by any appreciable measure the people and government of Iraq want us to go)."

Uhh, where specifically IN THE REGION does Montaigne and/or Obama propose leaving a residual force to fight AQ, or assist the Iraqis?
Offshore? Syria? Rammstein?
Certainly not withdrawal and containment from Saudi Arabia. There's a guy in a cave with a whole movement rallied about him for which it was infidel trespassing from within the sacred realm of The Prophet that triggered this little clash of civilizations?

Secondly, leaving all this aside since BHO doesn't answer a point but change the subject, can someone ask Senator Superstar to explain his position of invading Pakistani soveriegnty enmasse, beyond a few targeted drone bombings, in pursuit of AQ, and how he would reconcile that with his assumed objection to the fact that there was no Al Qaeda in Pakistan before we chased them all out of Afganistan?

8:45 AM  
Blogger Bartbuster said...

This post has been removed by the author.

12:50 PM  
Blogger Bartbuster said...

The problem here isn't Obama's incoherence, it is yours. Iraq was never, nor is it now, a base for Al Qaeda. Given that neither the Iraqi Sunni nor the Iraqi Shiites can stand Al Qaeda, it seems unlikely that Iraq will ever become an Al Qaeda base. However, the power vacuum created by the idiotic decision to invade Iraq has given Al Qaeda a chance to recruit Iraqi support by portraying itself as fighting the foreign infidels. The sooner we get out, the sooner that Iraqi support for Al Qaeda will disappear.

12:53 PM  
Blogger Average American said...

The bleeding heart liberals have their heads stuck so far in the sand that they will never be able to pull them out. I swear, it will be a cold day in Hell before a democrat ever admits that the surge is working and we should see this war to a successful end. Don't kid yourselves, Obama will not reverse himself on pulling out, it would be political suicide for him to do so. He might be a good talker, BUT THAT IS ALL HE IS!! The republicans are going to rip him a new asshole as soon as Billary quits the race which may very well be next week. John McCain has been pandering to the right lately to make repairs with the party, but most Americans know he is closer to moderate than conservative, and let's face it, most Americans are moderate. When Obama starts really getting hammered with tough questions, the people will start seeing him for what he is, A BIG FRIGGIN WINDBAG!!

Montagne=liberal idiot
Bartbuster=liberal idiot
Biwah=misguided, you'll have to be satisfied with McCain

The real laughable part is that we will be down to under 50,000 troops by the end of 2009 with McCain as president. He will be able to draw down as conditions dictate without giving timetables or goals. That is really the only difference. The democrats would have us telling our enemies all our secrets. How friggin stupid is that?? IP, thanks for the post and for the chance for me to vent.

11:49 PM  
Blogger Madman of Chu said...

It is easy to make Obama seem incoherent by comparison to McCain, whose position on Iraq has the virtue of being reducibly simple. McCain lays out a very clear standard of success- we will have won at the point that violence has ebbed so low that US troops will be able to sojourn in Iraq peacefully for 100 years. That is undoubtedly coherent, but it is not realistic. Security has obviously improved in Iraq, and some of that is attributable to the surge, but we are many, many years from the kind of stable homeostasis McCain lays down as the standard for victory, if it is ever in fact possible at all.

As for what Obama is aware of, I would list-

~He is aware that gains in Anbar against Al Qaeda are not a product of the surge, but of the political conversion of many Sunni tribes to the anit-AQI cause, a process that began before the surge was even contemplated. Even Petraeus admits that gains against AQI are only tangentially related to the surge.

~He is aware that predictions of "genocidal violence," etc. are just that- predictions. No one can be sure of what the future will bring in Iraq, whether we withdraw troops or not. Withdrawing troops *might* make things worse, but the chances of that are no greater than those of things getting worse even if our troops remain.

~He is aware that the surge has produced security gains, but those gains are easy to overestimate. We are right now down to levels of violence that were characteristic of late 2005 and early 2006. That puts us back to square one. Whether the surge will continue to deliver further security gains is an open question. Maybe we are on the magic path to peace and stability, maybe we have pursued a tactic that has reached its margin of diminishing returns. McCain holds to the former assessment. Obama claims the latter, and that disengagement, the one option that has not been tried yet, is the path forward from here. We have several months between now and November to see who has assessed the situation more correctly.

In short, Obama has been remarkably consistent and coherent on Iraq, his main difference from McCain is a pragmatic flexibility that bespeaks his strategic wisdom. McCain's inflexibility makes for a superficially more coherent message, but the past five years have demonstrated just how harmful that kind of strategic inflexibility can be.

12:34 PM  
Anonymous Wes Freeman said...

I don't think American Voters are stupid enough to elect Hussein Obama to the Presidency. He has ties to the communist and would be an enemy to the American People

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8:29 AM  
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5:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

福~
「朵
語‧,最一件事,就。好,你西.................

2:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

福~
「朵
語‧,最一件事,就。好,你西.................

5:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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9:47 PM  
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8:33 PM  
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1:26 PM  
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12:35 AM  

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